(no subject)

[lwoodbloo]

Ten years ago, a month from now, I went to poland and israel for a week
each, commemorating the Holocaust and the state of israel. I am not a
zionist or an israeli apologist, people, so get it off your minds.

My friend Linda brought me a book called "The Holocaust Project" today for
me to look at. The author traced most of my own trip through poland, and
ten years on, the memories still strike me hard. Until, as an individual,
and a jewish individual at that, you experience what I did, which isn't a
tenth of what the survivors of Auschwitz, Birkenau, Majdanek, Dachau,
Mauthausen, and Terezin, among others, experienced, I don't think you
really can call us sensitive. I don't think it's fair or right for anyone
to sit there and say "Why do you get all ruffled when someone says/talks
about anything anti-jewish?". I haven't written anything about The Passion,
and I won't until I see it. It's not fair, and I won't paint any of the
people involved until I do see it. But. I know what a passion play is. I
know what the intention of the passion plays were. The blood libel lived
then, and it lives now. It lives in antisemites everywhere. It lives in the
apologists for homicide bombers in Jerusalem. It lives in france and it
lives in germany. It lives in america, where I still hear people talk about
"jewin' them down". It lives in skinhead bands who use swastika imagery. I
believe in freedom of speech. I believe in it wholeheartedly. I can't abide
hate speech. Hate leads to dehumanization. When someone is dehumanized,
they become objectified. Jews became Shylock. Jews became hook nosed social
parasites. Jews became the scourge of the earth. Jews became prisoners.
Jews became corpses. Then jews became smoke. And I'll be damned if I ever
let it happen again in my lifetime. And that goes for the Kurds, the
Armenians, the Tutsi, Native Americans, and anyone else who has experienced
purposeful genocide.

Comments

[galatea-world.livejournal.com]

I totally agree with you on everything you said. We live in scary scary times, and cannot rest on our laurels. I think antisemitism is the worst I have ever seen it in my life, and...it's not limited to Jews. Hate just seems to permeate through the air...

[booshanky.livejournal.com]

Isnt religion wonderful? There's no other reason for such hatred of the jews than the bible. that's it.

I've never really understood the appeal of anti-semitisim anyway.

[lwoodbloo.livejournal.com]

Well, I appreciate that you don't hate me because I'm jewish. There are so many other, more delightful reasons. ;-)

[galatea-world.livejournal.com]

Well...that's true! ;-)

KIDDING!

[booshanky.livejournal.com]

I just never really understood the hatred of the jews.

[lwoodbloo.livejournal.com]

Well, me neither. I think I'm cute and cuddly.

[ntang.livejournal.com]

Well, as a Christian, I don't really see anything in the bible that makes me hate Jews. And I don't there's anything in there that actually encourages hatred of Jews or anyone else, really. I understand that people use it as an excuse, but you can use anything as an excuse, really.

[booshanky.livejournal.com]

Well, there's the whole "the jews killed jesus" etc argument. and like i said, i dont see it. but that's religion. Find a cause and then use an infallible and ineffable book to back it up.

Fuck man, i'm sure if you wanted to hate babies you could find a reason in the bible.

[helenangel.livejournal.com]

As I posted in garbear79's livejournal:

No one, save fundamentalist Islamics, are trying to destroy Christianity. -lol- It's so funny how fundie Christians scream that everyone is persecuting them when NO ONE is and they are given more rights than most people because they whine the loudest. "Ooh stop! You're persecuting me because I'm Christian!" What about the hundreds of years of persecution that the Christian church did? Have you forgotten about the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Witch Trials, the Trail of Tears, and the Holocaust? ALL Christians persecuting everyone else. I don't blame anyone for not persecuting Christians because aside from Islam they are one of the most reactionary, violent groups out there. It wasn't just Christ's blood that was shed as the Christian church loves to shed the blood of others today. Don't believe me? Look at Ireland.

[ntang.livejournal.com]

Ok so I'm just going to jump in here quickly. I did some research on the topic online, and while I won't deny that it appears that while Passion Plays were used to rouse anti-semitic sentiment at one point, it wasn't why they were started. I don't know if this is the most accurate site but it's the first one that came up when I went looking (it's not the only one I looked at, it's just convenient for quoting):

"The Passion Play, based on the life of Christ, dates from the 17th Century. It was first performed in 1634, following a vow taken by the people of Oberammergau during an outbreak of bubonic plague, which killed 15,000 nearby Munich residents in 1634 – 1635 alone.

The frightened population of Oberammergau prayed to be spared, taking a vow to be fulfilled not by a few but by the whole community. They vowed to do something in which everyone, rich and poor alike, would have a part: a Passion Play, the most sacred of all stories. They would present the story of Christ to the world every 10 years forevermore if the Lord would remove the plague from their people. The town was spared, and a tradition was born."

Now, again, I'm not denying that the point was corrupted and was used at times for negative reasons. I'm just saying that it wasn't the original point of them, and it's important to remember both sides of the story, not just the negative or just the positive.

Anyways.

[lwoodbloo.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the clarification, Nick.

[saintlex.livejournal.com]

You're going to see it? You are actually going to give money to the people behind this thing?

[lwoodbloo.livejournal.com]

I can't sit in judgment and not do so.

[saintlex.livejournal.com]

If you say so.

From what I've read about it, even without all the negative connotations it wouldn't be a movie I'd want to see.

And no one's going to get a penny from me for creating this controversy, for opening up such old wounds. This movie's very existence is hurting our people--not by opening up dialogue between intelligent people like us, but by encouraging the uneducated masses (and let's face it--the majority of people in the U.S. have probably never even met a Jew) to see us as evil caricatures, the way Anti-Semitic propaganda has done for centuries.

[phoenixsong]

*nod* I'm curious as well, and well, religion geek.

But, I'm waiting til it hits the cheapy theaters. I saw the first Harry Potter movie for $.50 on a weekday at noon, since I was working nights at the time. From what I've heard, that's about as much of my money as this thing is going to be worth to me. But I do want to be able to argue it intelligently, and I can't do so without seeing it.

Cheap theater is less expensive than rental. *g*

Don't hold your breath

[niamh1.livejournal.com]

I am guessing this one is going to take a while to get to the cheap theaters.

[meinleben78.livejournal.com]

Are you saying you think passion plays are anti-semitic?

yes!

[niamh1.livejournal.com]

Because traditionally they were. Yes, I know that ntang's earlier comment gives a historical perspective on their original purpose and he is right. There is more to it than that though. Passion Plays were, historically, rampantly antisemitic. One of the difficulties with studying the history of antisemitism is that it was so incredibly ingrained in European society that people didn't even think about it as such. "Merchant of Venice" (the easy example) was not thought of as a negative depiction of Jews. It just contained a normal portrayal of a Jewish character for that time. You average Christian audience member of the time would have seen it as such.

BTW Matt: The Scarlet Pimpernel has a classic dirty Jew depiction as well. It was so blatant it made me squirm.

Re: yes!

[meinleben78.livejournal.com]

So are we saying that because things were once anti-semitic that they ALWAYS will be? That we shouldn't allow them because they once were?

Re: yes!

[niamh1.livejournal.com]

First, I never said that we shouldn't allow Passion Plays. If there is one thing I feel very strongly about it is freedom of speech. As for them "once" being anti-semitic, I can't speak to the nature of them currently but I do know that they were significantly so well into the 20th century.

Why does anyone care?

[sevenzerosix.livejournal.com]

Who cares who says what about who, or who thinks what about what?
It makes no sense to occupy your well spent time on debates over opinion....er, well I guess that's what a debate is...

Anyone here hate Jews? Didn't think so...

Now how about the price of tea in china?

Re: Why does anyone care?

[sevenzerosix.livejournal.com]

I mean I wanted to foster a debate over this one too, at one point... but then I started thinking about how all the Rabbis were getting pissed... over what? Mel Gibson's movie!?!?

Let's all just ban religion and have everyone be Buddhist!:~)

Re: Why does anyone care?

[lwoodbloo.livejournal.com]

When what someone says about who ends up in six million people dying, then I do. I can't afford to be a relativist, not after I saw sixty tons of human ash and thousands of pairs of children's shoes.

I'm not saying boycott mel's movie. I'm not even saying, Don't go see it.

When a hate crime of this magnitude is perpetrated on you, and yes, on me, then I care.

I care a whole lot.